[IxDA Discuss] Now Hiring Leonardo DaVinci?

[Christine Boese]

No offense taken, Mark, just raising awareness. I appreciate your thoughts
below.

"Guys" alone, in the vernacular, is a common neutral term. However, specific
occupational attributes (programmer guy(s), graphics guy, etc, brings an
image to one's mind's eye, just as fireman brings up a different image from
firefighter, or businessman vs business person. It also feels one step away
from being what people think about when they write the job description.

When one says "We need an Oracle guy on this job," when talking to a product
team, what gender do you think team members are seeing in their minds?

I currently work at a media company that has a style guide which does not
require gender neutral language, something I've used in teaching and writing
for more than 20 years. It is constantly jarring to me to have to follow a
style guide that unabashedly adopts male as the norm and rarely uses neutral
language except in the plural, unless there is an already available word
like "firefighter" available to replace "fireman."

That may also explain some of my sensitivity to the issue, along with my
years of working in fields where the presence of women continues to be
remarked upon as unusual, even tho many women are active (and in leadership
roles) in those fields. Somehow, no matter how active individual women
become in male-dominated areas, job descriptions are still written with
people seeing men in the role, even if only in their minds while writing the
description. (and I'm not even getting into the issue of how job offers most
often get made to people who "look" the most "like" the people doing the
hiring, a physical mirroring that goes far beyond body language)

Chris

On 10/1/06, Mark Schraad <mschraad at mac.com> wrote:
>
> If I walk into a room and try and get the attention of the group and
> say, "hey guys" - or if I am addressing a group of people and say,
> "you guys" - I don't think of it in gender terms. Maybe that is my
> bad - but having worked in the graphics field (which is definitely
> not male dominated) I don't use the term as gender specific.
>
> Sorry if you were offended Chris... but you're way off based if you
> think I am referring to males only - or that only males can do the job.
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> On Oct 1, 2006, at 9:13 PM, Christine Boese wrote:
>
> > [Please voluntarily trim replies to include only relevant quoted
> > material.]
> >
> > Why is it they would only be looking for an "omni GUY" or "a super
> > flexible
> > multi-talented GUY" ??!!
> >
> > No wonder women have such a hard time breaking into male dominated
> > fields,
> > if recruiters and hiring agents are only looking for positions that by
> > definition can only be filled by men.
> >
> > Chris Boese
> >
> > On 9/28/06, mark Schraad <mschraad at mac.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> [Please voluntarily trim replies to include only relevant quoted
> >> material.]
> >>
> >> I completely agree. Most of these ads are looking for the omni guy
> >> - or
> >> super flexible multi talented guy. Is the fear of HR that they
> >> don't really
> >> know how to assess and hire a good designer? Might they not get
> >> approval for
> >> spending a decent amount on a mere designer? If they through some
> >> production
> >> or development utility they might just get this hire approved?
> >>
> >> It is curious to me the pressure being put on seasoned interactive or
> >> experience designers that do not have a masters degree, yet have
> >> 10 years
> >> expereince doing it right.
> >>
> >> But I also understand the struggles of the small firm. Hiring a
> >> full time
> >> person is sometimes a challenge - when you only have a half a
> >> person worth
> >> of work, yet you want a long term profession that really knows
> >> their stuff.
> >>
> >> Mark Schraad
> >>
> >>